Curse

A11Eur0 · Jul 22, 2008, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Let's leave religious nutcase arguments out of this thread pls.

fireflyry · Jul 22, 2008, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebullion24k

Alright, STFU about the "Go play WoW" or "This game isn't for you" bullsh*t"...

I play GW, and haven't mentioned ANYTHING about WoW so why should you.

You need to calm down dude.

People are merely suggesting that instead of QQing about the loot/gear system in GW, a core component and foundation of why the game is so good, you could go and play a game that has a system of the type you desire.

I play 3 online RPG's regularly, 2 of which have a loot segregation component outside of aesthetics.Maybe you could try another game where this would'nt be an issue for you?

It's just an obvious option that might be more rewarding to you than this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebullion24k

I never said I wanted OP sh*t that kills bosses in one hit, nor did I say I wanted the game to be like WoW.I said GW is a game that encourages players to prance around looking pretty by introducing fancy skinned items that have no other appealing qualities over a regular item than image.

So the only point of this thread was to state the obvious?

Anet stated vanity items would be the core of their reward/loot system from day one.If you have been playing since then what's the problem?Surely your used to it?

If your going to state in your OP:

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebullion24k

I understand that GW is trying their best to keep things balanced, but jesus christ... Give us something that is better than what we have than JUST COSMETIC UPGRADES!

...you really need to state exactly what it is you would prefer or desire instead, or at least present whatever clearly defined options you had in mind.Obviously without giving posters that information many will assume your wanting rarer loot to have higher stats and will respond accordingly.

"Wrong game, go play another one that has that"

Rather than telling them to STFU and stop posting maybe you should clearly define exactly what it is you do want as opposed to leaving it to the poster to assume.

[DE] · Jul 22, 2008, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Wait... the games not called Guild Wars: Dress and Dazzle?

O:

Neo Nugget · Jul 22, 2008, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Of course it is, anyone can craft a katana. But you have to work a wee bit harder for that tormented sword.

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

Wait... the games not called Guild Wars: Dress and Dazzle?

O:

I think that was the canceled chapter 5

{IceFire} · Jul 22, 2008, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by CronkTheImpaler

god i miss prophecies!!!! minus factions, nightfall, gwen!!!!

Cronk

PS i used to think FOW armor was the shit. now its just tired.

this, 12chars...

Chthon · Jul 22, 2008, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebullion24k

Does anyone agree with me?

I'm sure someone does, but I sure don't.

thebullion24k · Jul 22, 2008, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo the Capitalist

I agreeed when you mentioned all of that stuff

You turned me off a lot when you mentioned Jesus's name out in blasphemy!

I'm sorry if I offended you, but as you may have noticed, your morals of that matter aren't shared by many, including myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CronkTheImpaler

again, taking what the OP said as opinion, and thats what it was... i agree with him. PvP is where the challenge lies. its Human Vs Human, creative skill sets Vs Tactics. The PvE side of GW is suppose to be this fantastic world of dwarves and charr and humans etc. when the game came out it was fresh new and people experienced this world together. i even remember "GASP" when people talked casually during the missions. ITS NOT NEW ANYMORE!!! it is what it is, period.

this in no way means its not fun or for new players exciting, im sure it is. But those of us that have played since its inception have nothing left to do but PvP. thats where im at. im not complaining one iota. we got 4 campaigns out of this little piggy and now we must wait until GW2 releases.

i just happen to agree with the OP, BECAUSE now that its all been done people are reduced to collecting elite armor, elite weapons, piling up ectos etc. which is just fine in my opinion. to each his own. i however wont invest much time from here on out because i have exhausted everything THAT I want to do. now if GW was to ohhhhh i dont know release new realms of the gods or a new sorrows furnace type area, well thats different. that would be fresh and new. savvy?

Cronk

A lot of great points here, I suggest everyone read this to further understand my position of GW and what some steps can be done...

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

You need to calm down dude.

People are merely suggesting that instead of QQing about the loot/gear system in GW, a core component and foundation of why the game is so good, you could go and play a game that has a system of the type you desire.

I will calm down, when people stop being rude when I start this discussion neutral.

Also when they stop using the terms QQ when trying to insult someone by claiming they are crying when they have no basis of that accusation but only for being an assh*le.

I wouldn't be arguing about why GW has it's flaws if I didn't care for it, I would have simply moved on to one of my other RPG's to counter the down sides of the game. But since I'm taking the time to hopefully get a point across a board of thousands of people in hope someone agrees with me and possibly furthering the process of the argument to a dev to make it better, I will continue to do so.

Now, since that is all done...

What to do, what can possibly be done to not hurt the almost flawless PvP system and amp up the PvE...

When GW introduced their PvE only skills, I thought to myself... "About time"... I always have thought of ideas to set PvP from PvE and that was one of them.

So now that we know that there are skills that are more powerful than PvP skills for PvE, why can't items? If ShadowForm has extra seconds added to the skill for PvE what difference would it of been if you had armor that added to it?

For instance... "Cloak of the Shadows" cape/chest w/e... Instead of manipulating SF to where it's usable to EVERYONE at that exact stats... Why not have armor that adds 7 seconds to SF when you wear it?

In return, this adds armor that can be found and that have some sort of inherit benefit than just to make your character look better in the long run.

Think about it, When you have max armor, what separates it from the next set of armor? Back then Glad armor used to be for runners and Ascalon was needed for the damage reduction along with knights... Now every armor is the same except for the skin and price along with materials.

These different types of armor would only be accessible for PvE since this can pose an "imbalanced" idea to PvP.

Here's another idea to make PvE more interesting...

"Claws of the Brown Bear" "When wearing 'Claws of the Brown Bear' your Ursan strike hits twice" where as if you weren't to have it, you would only attack once... THESE types of changes to make ITEMS more useful rather than SKILLS is what I think can enhance the game tremendously. As of now, we can all agree that PvE updates will usually be to buff up skills. Instead of buffing up these skills, add in items that are hard to find to make the skills better.

Again, these are PvE exclusive ideas...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

I'm sure someone does, but I sure don't.

I appreciate your stance, but honestly guys, if this is ALL you have to say... Just pm me, I really want to have this thread spam free... And when I mean spam, I mean anything that DOES NOT bring anything constructive to this thread. For instance to make a spamless response tell me why you don't agree.

korcan · Jul 22, 2008, 02:42 AM // 02:42

In real life people buy BMWs, Benzs, Gucci, Prada, etc. when a Honda, Ford, Walmart clothes, etc do the exact same thing.

It's called humans being human. If you don't like it, go attend Star Wars conventions and pretend to be a wookie or something.

thebullion24k · Jul 22, 2008, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by korcan

In real life people buy BMWs, Benzs, Gucci, Prada, etc. when a Honda, Ford, Walmart clothes, etc do the exact same thing.

It's called humans being human. If you don't like it, go attend Star Wars conventions and pretend to be a wookie or something.

Ah great, another person telling me what alternatives I should be doing if I don't like something.

In fact, what I'm doing is what happens when you don't like something. It's working out fine, so go dance in a gay pride parade and leave this thread to the more mentally stable people that can actually bring something to the table other than insults.

Shayne Hawke · Jul 22, 2008, 02:54 AM // 02:54

A game like GW can't do a lot more than award everyone with cosmetics. Throw in something new to gain an edge, and if it works like it should, everyone will jump on it and demand it from everyone else. This makes more boundaries between haves and have-nots, which is already screwing over the game in more ways than one.

Rather than fall behind in a vicious cycle of not having myself decked out, I would rather see skills go in and out of being deemed functional or not. It's too bad that only skills in the meta are adjusted with the meta so that very few new skills or builds get developed on a regular basis, and some of them are only to fill a new meta or to serve as the lesser counterpart to a current build.

Trylo · Jul 22, 2008, 02:59 AM // 02:59

so, from reading your recent posts, what i have gathered is this:

1) you want to spend time doing something exciting and new (like how GW used to be, like when SF was new, titan quests, etc.)
2) you want to give people who spend time doing these new and exciting things numerically better equipment for their time.

since you have not clearly stated your opinions in what i have read this is what it seems you want. im all for #1, but #2 is just not GW. its all those mmorpgs which people think GW is a part of, when really it is not, and does not share the same aspects of a grind for items.

if this is not what you meant, feel free to respond, but hopefully you will make it clear and succinct so we dont have to keep guessing.

thebullion24k · Jul 22, 2008, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

A game like GW can't do a lot more than award everyone with cosmetics. Throw in something new to gain an edge, and if it works like it should, everyone will jump on it and demand it from everyone else. This makes more boundaries between haves and have-nots, which is already screwing over the game in more ways than one.

Rather than fall behind in a vicious cycle of not having myself decked out, I would rather see skills go in and out of being deemed functional or not. It's too bad that only skills in the meta are adjusted with the meta so that very few new skills or builds get developed on a regular basis, and some of them are only to fill a new meta or to serve as the lesser counterpart to a current build.

Having different things to choose from isn't a bad thing... If anything that encourages players to be more diverse.

I think GW can do more than cosmetics... It did great before the updates with only cosmetic goals.

Bryant Again · Jul 22, 2008, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebullion24k

What to do, what can possibly be done to not hurt the almost flawless PvP system and amp up the PvE...

When GW introduced their PvE only skills, I thought to myself... "About time"... I always have thought of ideas to set PvP from PvE and that was one of them.

So now that we know that there are skills that are more powerful than PvP skills for PvE, why can't items? If ShadowForm has extra seconds added to the skill for PvE what difference would it of been if you had armor that added to it?

For instance... "Cloak of the Shadows" cape/chest w/e... Instead of manipulating SF to where it's usable to EVERYONE at that exact stats... Why not have armor that adds 7 seconds to SF when you wear it?

In return, this adds armor that can be found and that have some sort of inherit benefit than just to make your character look better in the long run.

Think about it, When you have max armor, what separates it from the next set of armor? Back then Glad armor used to be for runners and Ascalon was needed for the damage reduction along with knights... Now every armor is the same except for the skin and price along with materials.

Here's another idea to make PvE more interesting...

"Claws of the Brown Bear" "When wearing 'Claws of the Brown Bear' your Ursan strike hits twice" where as if you weren't to have it, you would only attack once... THESE types of changes to make ITEMS more useful rather than SKILLS is what I think can enhance the game tremendously. As of now, we can all agree that PvE updates will usually be to buff up skills. Instead of buffing up these skills, add in items that are hard to find to make the skills better.

Again, these are PvE exclusive ideas...

While I can understand and appreciate your ideas, it's aiming at goals that Guild Wars never intended. This can be evidenced by the introduction of Factions of having different multiple sets of the same skin each having a different stat.

The fact that I can truly customize any piece of set in the game is nothing short of awesome. No longer am I tied down to a certain look or suit of armor just for a specific stat (I hated having to use the same set of gloves just for the knockdown bonus), I can look however I want and not be penalized for it. While I do like the tradtional look and feel of an epic set of armor that gives me very good armor protection and gleams in the sun, it's always good to come home to a highly unique and comfortably customizable RPG.

While the ideas of specific bonuses for specific skills and effects is pretty cool, I'd much rather they be purchasable from a rune trader. Guild Wars isn't about getting lucky with a random drop (nor is it about being able to grind a title and win, but that's for another thread), it's about being presented a series of options and choosing the best ones for the situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebullion24k

Having different things to choose from isn't a bad thing... If anything that encourages players to be more diverse.

I think GW can do more than cosmetics... It did great before the updates with only cosmetic goals.

But it does: it has a highly flexible and fun rune and insignia system, not to mention a large selection of mods and inscriptions for weapons. Very, very tasty.

When all is said and done, though, I really wish I could choose a different hilt for my FDS. But even with fire damage I'll still always use it : P

fireflyry · Jul 22, 2008, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Cheers for chucking up a few options dude.

Gives people something to work with and I like your ideas in part but I don't think Anet should be encouraged in this direction.

It's removing an aspect that sets it apart from other games and also the balance issues would be horrendous and make already OP'd classes even worse.

CronkTheImpaler · Jul 22, 2008, 03:11 AM // 03:11

please dont flame me for this but....... a honda is not a beamer. oh no no no it isnt. drive one then drive the other. on topic heres a suggestion i may have made already in this post, im not sure.

create new zones (elite)
with the new zones new creatures new weapon skins and different inherint UNINSCRIBABLE mods.

Boss's

if they are not story line neccesary then get rid of some and add others. move them around. this i think would eliminate alot of the targeted farming that killed the Greenies.

two ideas that were rolling around my little pea brain.

Cronk

has anyone seen the pudding thread??? righteous. check it out.

bhavv · Jul 22, 2008, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Armors and weapon skins in GW are completely optional, and are there to give you a choice of character appearance. No one is forcing you to buy anything expensive, it is a choice for players who play enough to save up for it.

I have never bought rare weapon skins off other players, but have found plenty of my own. I also have three sets of elite armors on different characters, and want two more for my HoM.

If you dont want the armor, then you dont have to buy it.

dilan155 · Jul 22, 2008, 03:17 AM // 03:17

well the problem with guild wars is people are failing to find a goal, many are bored without anything to do. Many of us have done all the titles( i see at least 10 times more people with gwamm walking around) and when thats done there really is nothing else to do besides farm stuff, i mean who likes doing the same mission elewenty billion times? and i see only very few people actually faming for the fun of it.

Now after all this is done, and you got some pretty penny from farming, all you can do is pimp your self up alittle. personally i hate seeing all monks and their grandmothers in fow armor+ mo zing mask+ voltaic+ chaos gloves+ tormented shield. I bet you more than half the monks in GW are a spinoff of that. Now this requires an enormous amount of money( at least to us casual players) so this gives some people something to work toward.

Its a fashion cycle now, you set a goal in cosmetics then you do things to achieve that goal. Before when there were new campaigns and new things to do fashion was set aside and instead other things became the goal, titles, finishing chapters etc. Take that away your back to the fashion cycle

Djinn Effer · Jul 22, 2008, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebullion24k

Ah great, another person telling me what alternatives I should be doing if I don't like something.

In fact, what I'm doing is what happens when you don't like something. It's working out fine, so go dance in a gay pride parade and leave this thread to the more mentally stable people that can actually bring something to the table other than insults.

What are you going to possibly bring to the table? Do you even realize how long the game has been out?

Think you're the first person that had this astounding realization?

They didn't change it for them, and they aren't changing it for you. Go play another game arguments are valid, whether you want to hear them or not.

It isn't even about being the prettiest, that wouldn't make sense. It's all about looking how you feel your character should look. It's a fantasy game, there's the fantasy. You have a lot of choices, some are harder to get than others; but, you can look how you want. There are weapons harder to get than others too.

They aren't going to add in swords that do 16-23 damage and are hard as heck to get. That's just one damage, but what if they added 20-27 damage swords? Now, I'm not saying having 5 more damage on a sword would be the have-all-end-all; but, it would create an imbalance.

You see, that's all that you miss. You miss imbalance. Items were hard to get, there was no such thing as faction, UW/FOW depended on HoH wins in your region, getting a celestial sigil was going to cost you 100k or more because they were so rare, and a few runes and other things were more expensive back then simply because they were less available.

Does it make you feel good knowing that you're better than someone cause you were lucky enough to find that Superior Absorption, so you're going to take 1 less damage than someone who only has a Major? That's what it's all about isn't it? You want the possibility to someone to literally be better than someone based on gear that is hard to get, that most people won't have.

In one fell swoop you destroy the entire foundation of Guild Wars. They said from the beginning the game was about skill, not items. What rock were you hiding under?

They've changed their game, to bring balance so those things that were near impossible for normal people to get, that did unbalance the game are now achievable. The game is about skill, though how much I believe that statement now days, I don't know. A lot of times it seems a lot more like rock, paper, scissors than player skill; but, there you have it.

Not all builds are balanced, but a good player can still beat a bad player, given builds that are in fact able to beat the other; and that's what they had intended.

So really, the play another game argument is valid. You are going against the ethics of the game as they have been presented by the game developers since day 1; so, if you don't like them then quite honestly, you shouldn't expect them to change it for you.

Someone says WoW, and god knows all of us GW players are programmed to hate WoW. It's that evil creature lurking in the shadows that stole all our friends and good players.

WoW isn't every other game out there, and all playing a game is about is enjoying yourself. I think people are getting far too deep into semantics and forgetting what games are supposed to be about. If you don't want to hear about WoW, look at Lineage 2, or any of the thousands of other games that may have systems like you desire. No, they aren't Guild Wars, and yes you will have to start over. But maybe, just maybe, you'll enjoy that game more than you enjoy Guild Wars now -- and that's what it's all about.

Not everyone's being rude and telling you if you don't like it to gtfo. It's reality. Not every game appeases everyone, that'd be why there's quite a lot of them, and some people will swear by them, while others will curse them to damnation. It's a simple fact, nothing more, nothing less. Take it how you will.

Age · Jul 22, 2008, 03:35 AM // 03:35

When the OP posted this.

Quote:

But hey, I shouldn't jump the gun since GW2 is coming out... But should I really be excited to play GW2 because it's going to be what GW wasn't? Or should I be excited because it IS a part of the original GW series, a great game.

I would say it will be more of the same as for GW being the prettiest well with the graphics being what they are who wouldn't.I wouldn't care what I looked in Wow being cartooney looking as well as some others.

That is why I will always like my old Star Trek Games they look real.

thebullion24k · Jul 22, 2008, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djinn Effer

What are you going to possibly bring to the table? Do you even realize how long the game has been out?

Think you're the first person that had this astounding realization?

They didn't change it for them, and they aren't changing it for you. Go play another game arguments are valid, whether you want to hear them or not.

It isn't even about being the prettiest, that wouldn't make sense. It's all about looking how you feel your character should look. It's a fantasy game, there's the fantasy. You have a lot of choices, some are harder to get than others; but, you can look how you want. There are weapons harder to get than others too.

They aren't going to add in swords that do 16-23 damage and are hard as heck to get. That's just one damage, but what if they added 20-27 damage swords? Now, I'm not saying having 5 more damage on a sword would be the have-all-end-all; but, it would create an imbalance.

You see, that's all that you miss. You miss imbalance. Items were hard to get, there was no such thing as faction, UW/FOW depended on HoH wins in your region, getting a celestial sigil was going to cost you 100k or more because they were so rare, and a few runes and other things were more expensive back then simply because they were less available.

Does it make you feel good knowing that you're better than someone cause you were lucky enough to find that Superior Absorption, so you're going to take 1 less damage than someone who only has a Major? That's what it's all about isn't it? You want the possibility to someone to literally be better than someone based on gear that is hard to get, that most people won't have.

In one fell swoop you destroy the entire foundation of Guild Wars. They said from the beginning the game was about skill, not items. What rock were you hiding under?

They've changed their game, to bring balance so those things that were near impossible for normal people to get, that did unbalance the game are now achievable. The game is about skill, though how much I believe that statement now days, I don't know. A lot of times it seems a lot more like rock, paper, scissors than player skill; but, there you have it.

Not all builds are balanced, but a good player can still beat a bad player, given builds that are in fact able to beat the other; and that's what they had intended.

So really, the play another game argument is valid. You are going against the ethics of the game as they have been presented by the game developers since day 1; so, if you don't like them then quite honestly, you shouldn't expect them to change it for you.

Someone says WoW, and god knows all of us GW players are programmed to hate WoW. It's that evil creature lurking in the shadows that stole all our friends and good players.

WoW isn't every other game out there, and all playing a game is about is enjoying yourself. I think people are getting far too deep into semantics and forgetting what games are supposed to be about. If you don't want to hear about WoW, look at Lineage 2, or any of the thousands of other games that may have systems like you desire. No, they aren't Guild Wars, and yes you will have to start over. But maybe, just maybe, you'll enjoy that game more than you enjoy Guild Wars now -- and that's what it's all about.

Not everyone's being rude and telling you if you don't like it to gtfo. It's reality. Not every game appeases everyone, that'd be why there's quite a lot of them, and some people will swear by them, while others will curse them to damnation. It's a simple fact, nothing more, nothing less. Take it how you will.

As much as I really want to re-explain myself for the 3rd time, I won't. So in short (and taking a different approach), PvE takes no skill, it's all C spacing due to what the devs made of it.